Dear COL crew,
I have been a listener of the podcast since episode 1, and it has remained one of my top podcasts since those early days. Though I do not agree with everything that is said, I enjoy the stories and hearing everyone’s different points of view. While listening to episode 125 this morning on my way to work, I know I am a little behind, Jeff read a letter about bears being the new twinks and becoming exclusive to those that do not fit the typical bear look. This is a topic of discussion that is quite personal to me.
I am 32, 5’10”, 150lb and hairy. I guess I would be considered and otter or a wolf or a cub depending on the term that people feel fits. I am not by any means a bear, but I identify with the premise of the bear community and I certainly love a hot bear, preferably naked, but I digress. I have attended my share of bear runs and am a former member of the local Atlanta bear group. I guess you can call me a chaser.
I have to say, after all these years in the bear community, I watched it transform from a very inclusive group that would accept just about anyone, to a more exclusive group that has its ideal look.
My first bear run was Bear Pride in Chicago a few years ago. Though there were ALLOT of bears at the event, I spent the majority of my time hanging out with two other cubs; because, the bears would have nothing to do with us. We were told by guys that we were too small. Though the three of us had a great time hanging out we all commented that “cubs need love too.” I brushed this off as just the personality of the run.
My second bear run was Bear All in Atlanta and a very similar situation occurred. I roomed with a friend who definitely fits the stereotype which was good for me since I was able to meet some nice guys as they tried to talk to my friend. Again, I just brushed off, but still enjoyed a weekend of heavy drinking and bear watching.
When I started to realize there was an issue was at IBR in San Francisco. Again I went with my bear friend, and again a group of us cubs hung out together because we were ignored by the bears at the event. I was able to make some good friends having my bear friend as good bear bate.
I am not an overly shy person and I do approach people to strike up a conversation. I then decided that there is an area between twink and bear that makes guys like me invisible to most of people in either group.
I don’t think the issue is necessarily that the bear community is ultra exclusive; just like I don’t think the twink community is ultra exclusive either. I know there are bears that like smaller or non-bear men, thank you Griff. In my opinion the issue is most gay men are not willing to strike up a conversation with someone they do not necessarily find sexually attractive. This issue is worse online than in person since it is considerably easier for someone to close a window or click the delete message button than to actually shun someone to their face.
I have been on bear411 since its inception and I have also been on various other bear chat sites. Not that I can say that I have not tried to use those sites to hook up, but in general I love talking to new people and making new friends. I tend to say hi to everyone. Again, try being a guy that does not fit the typical bear mold and see what kind of response you receive. You guys are a prime example of this, not that I love you any less because of it; I have tried chatting with Jeff, John-John (when he was on the show), and thegriff with little to no success. Tim don’t feel left out I just could not find you online to chat with you and I am not a big fan of email after sending hundreds of them a day at work. I figured I have listened to you guys for a long time and it would not hurt to say hello. I am not what any of you consider your “type”, but I feel that I have things in common with you all and I could make some new friends in this world. This reaction happens to me, my other smaller cub, and non bear friends quite often. Please do not take this as me being bitter or saying that you don’t have friends that are not your type; because, I am not upset and I know that you guys have friends that fall outside of the type of guy you are attracted to. I am simply making an observation.
Back before there were websites and people would talk to someone without ever knowing what they looked like, this was not an issue. I remember good old BBC and IRC groups where people would just talk to one another to form friendships. I don’t consider most bear chat sites as hookup sites, but I know many people do.
The gay community has become so sexually focused that we shy away from anyone that approaches us out of fear that the only reason someone would approach us is to hit on us. This is even more so the case for people that post “only looking for friends” or “just because I say hi does not mean I want to get in your pants” on their profiles.
This goes for bears, twinks, and everything in between; there are some of us that just like to talk to people.
The bear community over the 13 years I have considered myself a member, has become allot more exclusive and has gained the twink mentality of shunning people. I think it is time we took a step back and remembered our roots.
I know this was discussed on the show, but I just wanted to add by two cents as someone that lives in that in-between world. This is not something that will be solved by a podcast or that I expect to change anytime soon, but I wanted to let you guys know that it does exist and is more prevelant that you may think.
I love the show and look forward to many new episodes, and for all of us cub, otter, or whatever other names you want to give to someone that is small, sometimes hairy and homosexuals, hello bears.
I ask that you do not read this entire email on your show, but I do think it is an important topic of discussion for the gay community and the bear community as a whole.
Jason
Hey – Mr Jason guy
Just so you know, some of us bears DO like thin(er) hairy guys 🙂 And if you have facial hair, some of us like you EVEN MORE!
Dont think all the bears are that way – my tastes range from thin(er) guys who are hairy all the way up to chubby guys who are hairless… 🙂
-Brien
While I think that the gay community can frequently be rather compartmentalized, it may be because we, as a group are pretty focused on sex. After all, I have yet to walk into a straight bar and see “Grinder for Breeders” on anyone's mobile phone. Although maybe even subconsciously, we just become drawn to what we are attracted to and tend to now want to “burn time” talking to a twink.
During the filming of the original Planet of the Apes, the extras used to sit around during their meal breaks according to their species of ape. Still in costume, the gorillas would sit with gorillas, the chimpanzees would sit amidst chimpanzees, and the orangutans would only deign to dine with orangutans. “There'd be a kind of self-segregation,” Charlton Heston told the New York Times a few years ago. “The gorillas would all eat at one table, the chimpanzees at another, the orangutans at another.”
I'm pretty sure that there was no choreographed intent to group by species. I tend to believe that we are all just drawn to others that are like us; or want to bang.
Hey there:
My perspective on the whole bear phenomenon is pretty limited to online communications; there aren't any particular bear groups that I know of in my area (or were there any in Saskatchewan, where I grew up), and I've not gone to whatever a bear run is.
Having said that, the only discrimination that I've seen is that of the guy that runs Bear411, who has decided that I'm not 'bear' enough. The guys at this podcast have been welcoming to all types (even JJ, with whom I disagreed with from time to time.) The Bear Room on gay.com seems to be some of the friendliest people I've met online (for the most part, anyway. I realize that there's jerks everywhere.)
People often say that the bear community is supposed to be all about acceptance, and while that's a lofty goal, I'm not sure that it's true… from what I've read, the bear community seemed to start as a reaction to the popular gay culture of “young, urban, and shaved”. To be a bear was to not be one of THOSE guys, but to be yourself. Unless being yourself happened to be young, urban and shaved, I guess. Sort of exclusionary from the get-go, no?
People divide themselves up into subgroups all the time. I know a lot of time has been spent on this podcast by trying to define all these labels, but I've given up, myself. Part of the problem with figuring out what the bear community 'wants' is that the bear community is made up of actual people, who have the pesky attribute of having their own individuality. Some people are going to be exclusionary jerks, no matter what community they're a part of. Some people don't feel like being friendly to everyone they meet.
And some people don't know or care that they're being held up to someone else's standard just because they happen to be round(er) and fuzzy(er).
I dunno. The jury is still out, I guess. Food for thought, for whatever it's worth.
Cheers,
Chris